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First off I have a 67% win rate with garen. He works well assassinating squishies, with his combo.
I know the build. Mercs, Frozen Mallet, Infinity Edge, Atmas Implaer, Last Whisper, Maw of Mauritus . The issue with Garen is he cannot fight other bruisers late game in any regard and if you really want an assassin there are better ways to go about it, a champion with burst like talon or Akali. He does damage late game, but it takes little armor to shut that damage down.
Since his release Garen has been a champion with a strong early game and a weak late game. When people are having trouble with him be it regarding the person playing Garen or the person playing against him, the request usually goes like this,
“ He has a great early game, but he falls off late game. Maybe they could take away some of his base damage in exchange for better scaling?”
These people don’t get it. Increasing the attack damage scaling on Garens abilities while nerfing its base damage can result really in only one of two ways. 1) Garen just got flat out nerfed, 2) Garen has a slightly better mid game but needs to be fed, I mean like a Rural Southern Baptist’s son fed, to take advantage of it
Late game abilities for ad champions that scale well function for two possible things: (1) They enhance the champions auto attacks or (2) They provide some form utility, be it regarding sustain/toughness, crowd control, or mobility, or debuffs. An effective ad champion will have both number one and number two and even ad casters such as Pantheon have abilities that in some way passively interact with auto attacks. Garen is the exception to this rule.
Let’s examine some other champions.
Riven: Her abilities proc a passive that increase the damage of her auto attacks. One doubles for mobility and crowd control, one is a stun, and another is a dash. Damage,
mobility, crowd control and auto attack enhancement.
Talon: His only ability that interrupts auto attacking is rake, which is done quickly and because of the slow enhances the damage of his auto attacks. His ult has much more purpose than damage.
Lee Sinn: ….has an awesome passive
Shyvanna: Her auto attacks interact with her passive and her Q.
Pantheon: his auto’s interact with his passive and he has the (kind of lame but good for last hitting) heart seaker strike passive. Also Heart seaker strike is a perfect comparison to Judgement…but Pantheon has good situations where he can use it such as landing after his ult or going right after he stuns an enemy as doing that is actually more effective than going to auto attack right away. His Stun+heartseaker+Spear toss combo is just overall better dps in that time period than stun+auto attack
Renekton: His auto attacks interact with his abilities and even late game his stun can be pretty **** awesome.
Urgot: His abilities give him absurd range for harass and reduce the damage of his enemies by 15%, and reduce their armor by 15%, and his Q can be used in between auto attacks constantly with its ridiculously low cool down, allowing him to build little attack speed and not be as punished for doing so as other champions would. Having AD abilities on low cool downs is a big thing
Please note that I am not saying that Urgot, Pantheon, or Renekton actually have these amazing late games, what I am saying is that as champions they are simply better designed.
Garens “Spin to Win” stops him from auto attacking and he instead does aoe physical damage. The damage from this ability has a channel time of 3 seconds and its only effect aside from damage is reducing the duration of slows by 50%.
Judgement has to be doing more dps than auto attacking would for it to be worth garens time. I will acknowledge though that you might want to use it if someone is running away from you as it has a greater range than auto attacks,but the only reason garen needs that is because by design he has difficulty sticking to people the way many other ad champs can, having to forfeit damage to keep a squishy from getting away isn’t very reasonable.
Lastly it should be noted that Garens other abilities do not make up for this hole in his dps. His Q doesn’t scale as it can’t crit and even then doesn't work as an ability that resets his attack timer with that huge cool down,so it becomes his gap closer/escape, and his ult only scales if the enemy doesn’t buy any magic resistence at all. On top of all that Garen has bad attack speed scaling (I believe his base at level 18 is .93) on top of this in Garen's own tool tip it is discussed how he is limited by long cool downs. Damage abilities that have long cool downs should give burst It's the fundamental differance between Cassiopia and AP Sion
Garen is my favorite champion, but he is a flawed champion because he has flawed balance. Comparing him to the upcoming champion should only be understood as a statement regarding the similarity of the two champions appearance and lore.
tldr; Nothing in Garen's kit interacts with auto attacking, which is one of the superior methods of dealing damage late game, and his main damaging ability causes him to do less dps than a champion with a kit that does interact with auto's.
In addition, having long cool downs with unequal late game payoff, being extremely shut down by armor, and the growing popularity of tanky teams with 1 squishy ranged AD, make Garen a sad panda ....no seriously I hate fighting Ryze
I know the build. Mercs, Frozen Mallet, Infinity Edge, Atmas Implaer, Last Whisper, Maw of Mauritus . The issue with Garen is he cannot fight other bruisers late game in any regard and if you really want an assassin there are better ways to go about it, a champion with burst like talon or Akali. He does damage late game, but it takes little armor to shut that damage down.
Since his release Garen has been a champion with a strong early game and a weak late game. When people are having trouble with him be it regarding the person playing Garen or the person playing against him, the request usually goes like this,
“ He has a great early game, but he falls off late game. Maybe they could take away some of his base damage in exchange for better scaling?”
These people don’t get it. Increasing the attack damage scaling on Garens abilities while nerfing its base damage can result really in only one of two ways. 1) Garen just got flat out nerfed, 2) Garen has a slightly better mid game but needs to be fed, I mean like a Rural Southern Baptist’s son fed, to take advantage of it
Late game abilities for ad champions that scale well function for two possible things: (1) They enhance the champions auto attacks or (2) They provide some form utility, be it regarding sustain/toughness, crowd control, or mobility, or debuffs. An effective ad champion will have both number one and number two and even ad casters such as Pantheon have abilities that in some way passively interact with auto attacks. Garen is the exception to this rule.
Let’s examine some other champions.
Riven: Her abilities proc a passive that increase the damage of her auto attacks. One doubles for mobility and crowd control, one is a stun, and another is a dash. Damage,
mobility, crowd control and auto attack enhancement.
Talon: His only ability that interrupts auto attacking is rake, which is done quickly and because of the slow enhances the damage of his auto attacks. His ult has much more purpose than damage.
Lee Sinn: ….has an awesome passive
Shyvanna: Her auto attacks interact with her passive and her Q.
Pantheon: his auto’s interact with his passive and he has the (kind of lame but good for last hitting) heart seaker strike passive. Also Heart seaker strike is a perfect comparison to Judgement…but Pantheon has good situations where he can use it such as landing after his ult or going right after he stuns an enemy as doing that is actually more effective than going to auto attack right away. His Stun+heartseaker+Spear toss combo is just overall better dps in that time period than stun+auto attack
Renekton: His auto attacks interact with his abilities and even late game his stun can be pretty **** awesome.
Urgot: His abilities give him absurd range for harass and reduce the damage of his enemies by 15%, and reduce their armor by 15%, and his Q can be used in between auto attacks constantly with its ridiculously low cool down, allowing him to build little attack speed and not be as punished for doing so as other champions would. Having AD abilities on low cool downs is a big thing
Please note that I am not saying that Urgot, Pantheon, or Renekton actually have these amazing late games, what I am saying is that as champions they are simply better designed.
Garens “Spin to Win” stops him from auto attacking and he instead does aoe physical damage. The damage from this ability has a channel time of 3 seconds and its only effect aside from damage is reducing the duration of slows by 50%.
Judgement has to be doing more dps than auto attacking would for it to be worth garens time. I will acknowledge though that you might want to use it if someone is running away from you as it has a greater range than auto attacks,but the only reason garen needs that is because by design he has difficulty sticking to people the way many other ad champs can, having to forfeit damage to keep a squishy from getting away isn’t very reasonable.
Lastly it should be noted that Garens other abilities do not make up for this hole in his dps. His Q doesn’t scale as it can’t crit and even then doesn't work as an ability that resets his attack timer with that huge cool down,so it becomes his gap closer/escape, and his ult only scales if the enemy doesn’t buy any magic resistence at all. On top of all that Garen has bad attack speed scaling (I believe his base at level 18 is .93) on top of this in Garen's own tool tip it is discussed how he is limited by long cool downs. Damage abilities that have long cool downs should give burst It's the fundamental differance between Cassiopia and AP Sion
Garen is my favorite champion, but he is a flawed champion because he has flawed balance. Comparing him to the upcoming champion should only be understood as a statement regarding the similarity of the two champions appearance and lore.
tldr; Nothing in Garen's kit interacts with auto attacking, which is one of the superior methods of dealing damage late game, and his main damaging ability causes him to do less dps than a champion with a kit that does interact with auto's.
In addition, having long cool downs with unequal late game payoff, being extremely shut down by armor, and the growing popularity of tanky teams with 1 squishy ranged AD, make Garen a sad panda ....no seriously I hate fighting Ryze
Does Garens Spin Scale Base Dmg 3
- And a change to garen spin so that it does mostly the same or slightly less dmg levels 1-8, exactly dead even at level 9, and it scales up slowly 10-18. At level 18 where you get the biggest return on this, without any attack speed items (very possible considering the points made above despite the added ATS Ratio) you get a whopping 60.
- He has got next to no CC, his dmg is very low in actuality. His ultimate currently does less dmg than garens spin, it is also heavily bugged in its dmg calculation. His Q only debuffs base hero armor, doesnt scale. His W is bugged in that enemy heroes will stop attacking upon using it, makign the decoy even more obvious.
Does Garens Spin Scale Base Dmg System
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